| User | Post |
|
|
|
I just went to my 2nd round table meeting. My first one back in November I did leader spacific training.(BTW~ the guy that did the class didn't trun in the paperwork so I don't have credit for doing it) They have NOT had on sence then. There was a program with the old district trainer and now have a new one. When I met her tonight I was NOT impressed. She seemed to not have a handle on what is going on in the wonderful world of training. At first we were told that she was organizing then we were told that she is waiting on materials from National. Ok that is fine but then don't get up at round table and tell me how important training is when you don't offer what I need. I have a Webelos leader that needs leader specific,BALOO,and OWL before he can take the boys out. Spring Camporee is in April. I am so frustrated. When I specifically asked her about all of this I was told about scoutmaster training. I am a CUB SCOUT LEADER! I got the impression that she didn't have a clue what I was talking about. When I talk to the DE and Commish they say "Just give her time" How long do I give her? As a pack we have made a commitment to the boys and that is hard to do when training is not available. Can I go to another district to get what I need? What should I do? Help?! Sorry for the rant but this really makes me mad.
|
Committee Chairwoman for pack 35
|
|
|
10:19 am
February 5, 2010
|
Scouter_Garry
| | SATX | |
| PTC Boy Scout | posts 106 | 
|
|
|
Not being sure how far the High Plains District is from you. From your Council Website it looks like the High Plains District is well put together. You might check with their Training Chairs to see if what they offer is an option. Curious as to why the Webelos Leader would need BALOO? In my area as long as the leader has the Basic training and OWL, They can take their den camping. The requirement is waived if the Den is attending a Council or District event.
|
|
|
|
|
From what I have been told and read in the leader book and the Guide to Safe Scouting; for any pack that does overnight camp outs at least one leader needs to have BALOO training. I was also told that Webelos leaders would be the best ones to do that.
Please if I am totally off base let me know.
My DE is not used to people bugging him about getting training. I think that is so sad. I think that in order to give the boys a quality program a leader should get all the training that they can.
I know what it does to the leadership and ultimately the boys when leaders are not trained. Our old cubmaster didn't think it was that important and it affected the boys. Thus part of the reason that she is no longer in that position. We are a really new pack so I think that it is even more important to do what we can to get trained.
|
Committee Chairwoman for pack 35
|
|
|
1:28 pm
February 5, 2010
|
SM Shawn
| | Green Bay, WI | |
| Admin
| posts 492 | 
|
|
|
I have seen some of the struggles that you are having, Nancy, so I thought that I would weigh in.
The DE isn't part of the training program. Their roles are defined as Marketing Agents in charge of Fundraising and Recruiting.The Commish, whatever level, isn't a part of training, either. Now, a district Commish can put some pressure on getting the trainer to get some sessions together, but that is really the extent of it.
Along the same lines, RT is NOT the place that training should be getting offered…you are there for the kinship and the camaraderie of scouting, and to hear about upcoming events, or to get ideas on how to make your program more effective.
As Garry said, check other districts and councils for available training…it's all the same training, and it doesn't matter where you get it from…and in my eyes, getting the "Trained" patch is a big thing…and what does that say about you getting your patch/training from another district? Loads…and it will put the focus on YOUR district training deficiencies.
Go online and start there, learn what is out there and be diligent…
I understand that you are in a more rural area, where resources may be limited, but in a case of doing stuff for the scouts, you should have the mindset of "What CAN I do?" as there are so many folks out there that use "can'ts" and "but's"…it's really up to you to find what's out there…
The great folks at PTC and a lot of the forum posters have one thing in common…we are all trying to help to find the answers…
|
Host of the True North Podcast
Co-Host of Scout Nation
Scoutmaster
Dad and Husband…
|
|
|
1:39 pm
February 5, 2010
|
Scouter_Garry
| | SATX | |
| PTC Boy Scout | posts 106 |
|
|
|
You are correct the Pack needs at least one person to be BALOO Trained for the Pack to do overnighter's. This is well documented. IMHO, I would recommend that this be taken in the Spring as a Wolf leader or the Fall as a Bear Leader or asap for the committee camping chair. That way you always have plenty of BALOO leadership.
I can find no online reference that says a WEBELOS Den Camping requires BALOO. In places people do say it is recommended. Two years ago I had handouts that said a WEBELOS Leader need to have attended Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders. Today I find that it is OLSWL is only recommended.
http://www.scouting.org/scouts…..mping.aspx
Under WEBELOS Den Overnight Campouts it says, "These events SHOULD be conducted under the leadership of a Webelos den leader who is trained in Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders, an outdoor-emphasis training provided by the district or council."
Your DE is in for a surprise in coming years then. Currently as of January 1, 2012 all top leaders must be trained or the unit will not be rechartered. As of January 1, 2013 All direct contact leaders must be trained or the unit will not be rechartered.
|
|
|
1:59 pm
February 5, 2010
|
Scouter_Garry
| | SATX | |
| PTC Boy Scout | posts 106 |
|
|
|
I would say ideally the District Training Chair or District Cub Scout Training chair should field all training related questions. Many scouters rarely know who fills these positions in their district.
Even though the DE is a Marketing Agent, they are the focus of point of many districts. They are the most well known part of many key three's. The District Commish is probablly a distant second. So I do feel the DE should be able to answer basic questions about and point you to where to find training opportunities. So if your Training Chair is coming up to speed, they should be able to say we're behind the 8 ball right now but "Armadillo" District will be having basic training next month.
Shawn is right about no training at RT. The RT program is designed to be hip pocket, Just enough Just in time, training on the themes. A place to answer your questions and provide a tool for discussion.
|
|
|
|
|
SM Garry and SM Shawn,
I have to say that things in my little scouting world have been much better scene I found everyone at PTC media. Everyone has been so willing to answer any question that I have. So Thank you to Everyone!
Thanks SM Garry for giving me a good place to go for information. I am going to call their training chair Monday and see what I can work out with them.
Thanks SM Shawn. I am totally on the same page with you that it is what can I do for the boys.
My hubby (our webelos leader) and I are both fully online trained.
The way they did run RT is the first time that you go you do your leader specific training then the next time you go to the actual RT meeting. I guess that it never really accrued to me that this is not what should be going on.
Thanks again everyone. Please keep helping us newbies.
|
Committee Chairwoman for pack 35
|
|
|
|
|
I think that your totally right everyone is going to have to wake up and smell the coffee so to speak when it comes to training.
CM Chris, Can we come down there and do training with you? LOL
You guys are great!!!
|
Committee Chairwoman for pack 35
|
|
|
|
|
I have been very onto of the training certificates (other than the ones that are out of my control). I have a file on each leader, so when they complete one they print 2 copies- one for them and one for me so that I have a hard copy to mail if needed. I scan them in my computer so that I have a digital copy to email if I need to. The paperwork part of our pack it so in the best place it could be. I am also working on getting all the leaders and whatever parents that want to CPR/First Aid trained too. Do you think that I am going over board? My hubby and I don't have any kids so the pack is kinda like our little ones.
QUESTION~ How long to you guys give your leaders to get online trained? If they don't what action do you take? How many chances do you give them to get it done?
|
Committee Chairwoman for pack 35
|
|
|
|
|
OMG!!!!
Here we go again… in our district we are having to fight to get the training that we need to give our boys the best leaders that we can. We found out tonight that the district is not going to offer BALOO or OWL until the fall. They are only doing boy scout training in the spring. What is that all about. I think that I know more about training than the person in charge. So I found the training that we are going to need in ANOTHER DISTRICT. How SAD is that. The only bad thing is that they are not until May.
On top of all of this I found out that the CSLS1 and CSLS2 that I thought that I had was not even close to what I should have and the paper work saying that I did the class is "lost". So again I am going to another district to get what I need along with the other leaders in our pack. What is going to happen in 2011 when in order to recharter you have to be 100% trained when the district doesn't have what you need?
How can some one preach to you about getting trained when they don't offer what is needed?
Sorry am so MAD and needed to rant.
Does anyone have any advise? Thanks
|
Committee Chairwoman for pack 35
|
|
|
10:36 am
March 5, 2010
|
Scouter_Garry
| | SATX | |
| PTC Boy Scout | posts 106 |
|
|
|
Nancy,
National Announced at the beginning of February that Introduction to Outdoor Leaders Skills is replacing Webelos Outdoor Leader Skills. That doesn't resolve your issue with BALOO.
Make it practice to never leave training without a training card. Then take one or more of your sons trading card game sheets and put all of your training cards in them. If you can produce a card they can't say you weren't trained for good or bad, right or wrong.
It may be that national is stepping back from the hard and fast stance on training. Capital Area Council posted a facebook blurb this week saying it is only a pilot and not to worry about it yet. That is unless you are one of the pilot council's. I think they posted it on Wednesday March 3rd. http://www.facebook.com/Capito…..2920952..1 I'm taking this with a grain of salt at this time.
I seem to remember but cannot confirm that the rollout was discussed at Top Hands or the National Annual Meeting in 2009. When I first started Tracking it, the dates seems pretty solid that it would be a three year deployment. Here are things I found in print that suggest it is going to be implemented.
Northern Star Council ->Near bottom of page under Required/Mandatory Training -> facts http://training.nsbsa.org/info…..ments.aspx
"The current timeline for the pilot and implementation is as follows:
2010 – Pilot councils implement required training for all Top Leaders (Scoutmasters, Cubmasters, Venture Crew Advisors, etc)
2011 – All councils implement required training for all Top Leaders and pilot council implement required training for Direct Contact Leaders.
2012 – All councils implement required training for Direct Contact Leaders."
Mid America Council -> http://www.mac-bsa.org/mac_new…..spx?ID=795
"The Mid-America Council, along with the rest of the councils in the B.S.A., will start the mandatory training for all Top Leaders in January of 2011. At this time the 8 pilot councils will begin mandatory training for all direct contact leaders, or those in direct contact with youth. The Mid-America Council will follow, and require training for all direct contact leaders in January of 2012."
Other things pointing towards the Mandatory training are:
Philmont Training Center has a session called Implementation of Required Training – June 20-26. That seems late for the pilot councils.
The National Annual Meeting in May Has this session E-110 Come Fly the Friendly Skies of Volunteer Development
This session is dedicated to the inquiring minds concerning REQUIRED TRAINING. We will also touch on such hot topics as the Philmont Training Center and other changes that are occurring through the Volunteer Development Team. Our pilot and co-pilot will steer the flight over some turbulent air, but we promise you a smooth landing.
The Philmont course and the Annual Meeting Session make me believe that National recognizes that council's like yours are going to need help delivering training to your leaders. It hardly seems reasonable to me to invest the time in a week long course at philmont if this were truly only a test or pilot program.
That being said last weekend I Attended IOLS with two people that drove from 3 hours away. So your issues aren't just a Kansas issue. Many council's have the same issue.
|
|
|
|
|
Scouter_Garry,
Thank you so much for all the info. I am very discussed with the hole thing. I have gotten in touched with the head of the OWL and BALOO for another district and we well be joining them.
I have heard nothing about the change to OWL to IOLS, but all that means is that I don't know about it. LOL. I think that is why I like posting things on here b/c you all have information that I don't know. So again I say thank you. Not that it is a good thing but it is nice to know that others are having the same problem that I am. My next question is with all the changes that are coming with cub scouts 2010 I really hope that at least some of the training will carry over if not all of it.
Thanks for all your in put.
|
Committee Chairwoman for pack 35
|
|
|
9:26 pm
April 7, 2010
|
ScouterAdam
| | Portland, OR | |
| PTC Webelos | posts 86 |
|
|
|
I am reading through all of this and learning a lot. The next time IOLS is offered in my area, I am taking it. I am a Cubmaster, but will be stepping down when my son gets into Webelos I. He is a Wolf now. So I have awhile.
All, I was the Tiger Den Leader last year and stepped up to this this year due to pack transistion reasons. I also went to Woodbadge and just got beaded. Highly suggest Woodbadge when you can afford it.
As the motto states "DO YOUR BEST!"
|
Cubmaster Pack 221 Portland, OR WE1-492-09 Beaver Patrol, Staff WE1-492011, Blog:http://scouteradam.wordpress.com/
|
|
|
7:00 am
May 20, 2010
|
Veretax
| | Hinton, WV | |
| PTC Bear | posts 68 |
|
|
|
Great topic!
I can relate to having difficulty with the training issues. Our pack is new, didn't get started tell february, and it was late march early april before I even became aware that they were up and running. (At which point I jumped to call the cubmaster to find out when they met so I could get my son and myself involved). We've really been stumbling along for those first couple of months and then in late march we got to take BALOO, OWL, and IOLS in a single over night training event (and it Rocked btw!) Being with fellow scouters for the first time since 96 as a boy really relit my fire for the program.
However, it really wasn't until that weekend that we got some questions answered. Up until that point I was kind of wearing three hats. Assistant Den Leader, Assistant Cubmaster, and some general position. I took all of the training online that was recommended for the Cubmaster, and Den Leader positions, not knowing which one officially I was. (It's been clarified now that assistant cubmaster is what I'm chartered as or will be once a few hoops are tied up).
I've been gobbling up training, and words of wisdom from all over the web, because I want to make sure scouting puts down a firm footprint here in Hinton, WV. When we first moved here there was a pack and a troop at the church we initially attended, however, due to my work situation (6 month contract with no guarantee of it being permanent), I was discouraged about getting involved. When they brought me on full time and we felt settled I began to look for ways to work and help my community, unfortunately it was too late, the Church did not renew the charter, and scouting disappeared from the area for 2-3 years. How depressing.
I had really wanted to get involved, but after seeing that happen, I didn't know where to go from there. I touched base one time with the District Executive I think it was, but I never really caught on with things, and until this year had resolved that as long as I lived here scouting was not going to be an option. Naturally, when I saw a new unit start up, I wanted involved. I wanted to see it succeed, because I've seen some of the crazy stuff kids do when they don't have activities they can be doing that better themselves, and they tend to be destructive in nature.
In any case, my quirk of a Dilemma regarding training is that because our pack started this year, and then I wasn't added/identified for a position till almost a month later, I missed my opportunity till the fall probably for the Cubmaster position training. Council tells us that will be online soon (In June they think), but that doesn't help me now. So I'm doing the best I can to try and right this ship and set it firmly. I've been very vocal about trying to make sure we as adults are planning these meetings and following guidelines, but its difficult when a lot of parents are not 'on board'.
Somehow, when the unit started a number of Tiger parents got the mistaken impression, that they just drop their boy off at the church and then pick him up after, and that is all the involvement they are required to participate in the program. We had about 18 Cubs in total, 4 Wolves, and 14 Tigers at one point, since we started raising those points the participation in Tigers has waned, and now a few of them are in some sports.
In any case, as I understand it June 1st is the deadline for them to Earn Tiger/Wolf, and I am working as hard as I can to see that the boys I help lead (wolves reach that deadline) The Cubmaster wants to extend it to August or September, but I really feel that is not wise. In any case, sorry for the long 'rant', but I'm like most in this thread, I want to learn to do things the right way, and I want to make these programs so they have lasting significance for these boys and the community.
|
|
|
3:55 pm
July 26, 2010
|
smwalker_oh
| | Middletown, Ohio | |
| PTC Star Scout | posts 596 |
|
|
|
I'm upfront with my parents at recruitment nights about two things.
1. Tigers must have an adult with them at all times. National policy and all.
2. BSA does not = Baby Sitters of America. All families are expected to help out in some fashion, we are not a drop-off and pick-up organization. Cub Scouts is a family oriented program afterall. "The Cub Scout helps the pack go." I believe that this extends to the family, not just the boy.
Training is such a sticky situation for so many people. Some districts do it great, some fail miserably, and the vast majority seems to be in between. I've seen new training curriculums come online during my tenure (the most recent CSLS system) and there have been good and bad and even in places where I think things were doing great changes make me kind of shake my head.
The online training that should have dropped nearly a month ago (raise your hand if you're actually surprised that this didn't happen when it was supposed to…) will help with consistency of program but it also eliminates the human factor that you get with a room full of leaders (new and old) which in experience can make or break a training course.
Some changes I do not agree with, such as cutting content to streamline the program so a den leader can get fully trained in 2 hours. They might know most of what they're supposed to be doing, but have no idea why and I think that's a problem. If a leader doesn't know why we do something, they are less likely to buy into the program and may not utilize that method, which is an overall negative impact to the boy.
When people come to my training courses they may complain about it taking all day long (9am – 3pm normally with a lunch break and short intermissions), but I've never had one walk away confused about what their role is, what they are supposed to be doing, or WHY things are that way. And I'll take that any day.
|
PT – Pack 19 Middletown
CR/CC – Pack, Troop & Crew 801 Middletown
MC, Packs 321, 418 & 468, Middletown
Hopewell District Cub Roundtable Commissioner
Hopewell 2011 Fall Recruitment Coordinator – Middletown
Dan Beard Council Certified Trainer
GSWO NOVA #449 Service Unit Camping Coordinator
|
|
Login 
Register 
Search 
PTC Media Forums
Topic RSS 
