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10:10 pm June 29, 2009
| stevejb68
| | Minnesota | |
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| posts 387 | 
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One thing I think really brought the two organizations together is their shared core values and morals.
The GSUSA seems to get further and further away from the principles that were there when they started. I have had several parents over the years that had children in the BSA and the GSUSA and most of them found the GSUSA program lacking compared to the BSA program.
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Steve B, Scoutmaster, Troop 68, CMC, http://www.melrosetroop68.org/blog/
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10:38 am June 30, 2009
| smwalker_oh
| | Middletown, Ohio | |
| PTC Star Scout | posts 592 |  
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I find the same thing. My Cubmaster is even the Service Unit Manager for our local Girl Scouts and she's of the same opinion so she tries to do as much as she can to enhance wherever possible.
My wife and I discussed this last night. I think the GSUSA program just is too unstructured and lacks quite a bit of important things. A specific example:
The Junior program for the GSUSA is for girls around the 4th and 5th grades. This is roughly equivalent in age terms to our Webelos program. Now in Cub Scouts, boys first learn the rules and properly handling of pocket knives in their Bear year, the year prior to this (roughly 3rd grade). Since my whole family are Scouts (me obviously, my son Jon is a Webelos I now, my daughter Jessie is a Junior GS and my wife Jenny is both a Cub Scout leader on our committee and a Girl Scout leader), we all have pocket knives – except for Jessie. So I get Jessica one. I figure first I'm going to go over the knife safety guidelines in her handbook with her before she can use it. So I grab the Junior Girl Scout Handbook, flip to the index, go to "K" and…nothing. No knives listed. I go to "P" thinking maybe it's under "pocket knives." Nope. Pocket Mirrors, yes. Pocket knives, no. So I check under "S" for Safety. Aha! Safety is definitely listed, but nothing about knives. Tools? I flip to that section. Ms. Fit-It, it's called. And it talks about all the different tools that a girl should really have in her toolbox – hammer, screwdrivers, saw, plane, awl, pliers, wrench – but no knife.
The knife, aka the blade, aka the sharp or pointy edged rock. The second most useful tool in all of recorded (and unrecorded) human history – second only to the rock – is not listed. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over?
I'm going to have to pull out Jon's Bear handbook to teach Jessie knife safety. Actually, my Cubmaster is actually trying to get a day set up where myself and other BSA leaders will teach the Whittlin' Chit to all the Girl Scouts in the service unit.
I could go on, but it annoys me so much sometimes this might devolve into a rant…
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PT – Pack 19 Middletown
CR/CC – Pack, Troop & Crew 801 Middletown
MC, Packs 321, 418 & 468, Middletown
Hopewell District Cub Roundtable Commissioner
Hopewell 2011 Fall Recruitment Coordinator – Middletown
Dan Beard Council Certified Trainer
GSWO NOVA #449 Service Unit Camping Coordinator
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11:15 am June 30, 2009
| Cubmaster Chris
| | Cedar Park, Texas | |
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Do you think this is the BSA's way of answering the "when are you going to let girls in" question?
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11:26 am June 30, 2009
| Scouter_Garry
| | SATX | |
| PTC Boy Scout | posts 106 | 
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Scott – ROFL. We had a Major in the AF go through the same thing this year with his Daughter after going to a Survivor themed camp. Maybe the GS cover knife safety under cooking or kitchen tools? I don't know because my two daisy daughters were told not to buy the book they wouldn't be using it… at all?
As I posted my theory in the other topic. Yes, I hope it is the answer to "when are you going to let girls in?" I'm somewhat convinced the real issue is the WAGGGS organization.
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11:41 am June 30, 2009
| SM Shawn
| | Green Bay, WI | |
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I wouldn't really concern myself with what the world has to say about what the Americans do…the rest of the world pretty much has co-ed scouting from the beginning, not like our venturing program, which waits until the girls are 14…sufficed to say, the rest of the world takes our lead and rolls with it, or makes tweaks to their programs to better it…but for the most part, they are already co-ed…UK, Australia, South Africa…
In my opinion, I don't think that the BSA really cares what the WOSM thinks, and I don't think that the AHG is going to care if they have the backing of a world organization…
I have no daughters, hence I can be pretty biased when it comes to the BSA and the no girl policy…but if there is an organization that is still a seperate entity, but has an affiliation with the BSA, and it happens to be girls, I am fine with that…I may sound like I am being selfish, but really, enough is enough when it comes to "allowing the girls in the boys clubs"….but this would be a nice compromise, in my book…
Scott….why don't you drop some of those BSA titles and pick up an AHG title? It sounds like that may work better for you, and then we would have another "iron in the scouting fire" persay, in regards to questions on the PTC forums…

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Host of the True North Podcast
Co-Host of Scout Nation
Scoutmaster
Dad and Husband…
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2:57 pm June 30, 2009
| smwalker_oh
| | Middletown, Ohio | |
| PTC Star Scout | posts 592 |  
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Scouter_Garry said:
Scott – ROFL. We had a Major in the AF go through the same thing this year with his Daughter after going to a Survivor themed camp. Maybe the GS cover knife safety under cooking or kitchen tools? I don't know because my two daisy daughters were told not to buy the book they wouldn't be using it… at all?
I think maybe the GSUSA version of knife safety might be, "Ask a man to do it for you."
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PT – Pack 19 Middletown
CR/CC – Pack, Troop & Crew 801 Middletown
MC, Packs 321, 418 & 468, Middletown
Hopewell District Cub Roundtable Commissioner
Hopewell 2011 Fall Recruitment Coordinator – Middletown
Dan Beard Council Certified Trainer
GSWO NOVA #449 Service Unit Camping Coordinator
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6:01 am August 4, 2009
| MISS Liberty
| | California | |
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| posts 231 |  
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SMWalker said:
I think maybe the GSUSA version of knife safety might be, “Ask a man to do it for you.”
I'm… confused. This isn't what you're supposed to do!?
Just kidding. :)
I have a daughter, and honestly, I wouldn't want her in Boy Scouts. Not because I don't value what she could learn from the program (she already DOES learn from the program, if only from being around it so much) but because my boys like having their time without girls around. I firmly believe boys NEED that "guy time" where they aren't competing or impressing stinky little girls.
I had hoped the American Heritage Girls program would turn out to be something we could look into instead of Girl Scouts, but I'm afraid it won't be right for us, either. I guess my daughter will just have to stick to learnin' from her big brothers for now.
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"[S]He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which." ~ Douglas Adams
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11:21 am August 6, 2009
| smwalker_oh
| | Middletown, Ohio | |
| PTC Star Scout | posts 592 |  
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Liberty said:
I had hoped the American Heritage Girls program would turn out to be something we could look into instead of Girl Scouts, but I'm afraid it won't be right for us, either. I guess my daughter will just have to stick to learnin' from her big brothers for now.
That's too bad. I was going to suggest to my daughter about switching to AHG but she is already on her 5th year of Girl Scouts so at this point we'll probably stick with it until she hits 14 and can join a Crew. Though starting for this fall she's going to be a Juliet (GSUSA version of the Lone Scout program), and it appears that my wife is going to be the Juliet Coordinator for the service unit. We'll see how that goes.
Jessica was considering doing the Bronze Award (kinda like the Arrow of Light) project as creating a badge program for knife safety (only for juniors and older, not brownies or daisies). Our service unit manager told her that it's a great idea, but too ambitious for a Bronze Award project, she should save it for a Silver Award (highest award for the next level up, 6th and 7th grade I guess) project. Apparantly the Bronze Award is more along the lines of "spend 10-15 hours cleaning up a local park" type of thing.
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PT – Pack 19 Middletown
CR/CC – Pack, Troop & Crew 801 Middletown
MC, Packs 321, 418 & 468, Middletown
Hopewell District Cub Roundtable Commissioner
Hopewell 2011 Fall Recruitment Coordinator – Middletown
Dan Beard Council Certified Trainer
GSWO NOVA #449 Service Unit Camping Coordinator
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