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5:29 pm
July 13, 2010
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Ken
| | Scranton, PA | |
| PTC Bear | posts 70 |  
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To anyone who has any experience with Girl Scouts.
I've been a Boy Scout/Scouter my entire life, and am very familiar with the volunteer structure of the BSA. My wife has NO Girl Scout experience at all.
Our daughter wants to do Girl Scouts, and I've talked briefly to an old friend who has her daughter in a GS unit (are they still called troops?). My wife is willing to be involved as a leader as well. She passed our contact information to the brownie leader. That was two months ago, no contact.
Now I know it's summer, and they may or may not be as active, but I'm not used to this at all. In my BSA experience (or any volunteer organization) if you have someone interested in volunteering, the last thing you do is let them hang. I'm not sure what's up.
Anyway, we want to get more information on our own, but the local council (local meaning almost 1/2 the state of PA) website is no help. What can I expect if I contact the local council office directly (there is a local service office for the council near us)? I realize I won't find a volunteer structure like the BSA has, but is there anything even close? Will I be talking to a volunteer or employee? Is there an equivalent of a unit commissioner or DE?
We really don't want to go to another CO, as that's where my current pack is, the same pack (and troop) I was a member of. If they're not organized enough to call us back, I'd rather try to stay and make them better than leave and go somewhere else. If that's the case, I'd like to know what support there would be from the council.
Thanks for any insight you folks can provide, and sorry for the long, rambling message. :)
Ken
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1:18 am
July 14, 2010
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Veretax
| | Hinton, WV | |
| PTC Bear | posts 68 |
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I really don't have any experience with the Girl Scouts as an organization, but I do have some experience in working with other people who are not in scouting. It is possible that whoever your wife contacted just plain forgot, we are after all human. I know that doesn't help you with the current situation much, but do let us know how you are able to resolve it. I may end up in a similar predicament as I have to children myself, and my youngest is a girl too.
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4:58 am
July 14, 2010
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Ken
| | Scranton, PA | |
| PTC Bear | posts 70 |
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Yep, that's probably true. It is summer and people are busy, but a call or email acknowledging it would be nice. "Hey, we're thrilled your interesting in bringing your daughter in to the troop, and volunteering as a leader. Let's get together after the summer activities are over, and for now check out this information to help you get started…"
Anyway, my main question still stands. What can anyone tell me about the support given to Girl Scouts at the unit level? Is there a volunteer structure even a little similar to the BSA, or is it direct from local council professionals direct to units? I've found very, very little information about this at all.
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9:43 am
July 14, 2010
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SM Shawn
| | Green Bay, WI | |
| Admin
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I really don't want to sound too harsh, as I have no daughters, so I will never enter into the Girl Scout program, unless my wife and I adopt a girl and that's what she wants.
I have heard nothing good come from anyone who I know that is involved in the GS. Here is what I have been told, first hand.
First Case: My sister-in-law said that they joined in the spring a couple of years ago, never heard a word until the fall. When my neice sold cookies, she sold $300 worth, and was told that it pays for camp. When she went to sign up for camp, the troop leader told her there was no money for my neice, as the cookie money paid for the troop leader to attend some national training seesion…she has since quit.
Second Case: A scout in my son's den, has a sister who is GS age…mom is very happy with our Cub program, loves it, the scout loves it and the grandparents love it. Mom asked me about the GS, I had no answers, but asked what her questions were. Same as my sister-in-law…signed up 4 months ago, nobody contacted her, but her check was cashed 2 days after signup. She finally got a hold of someone, and they told her that there was no troop leaders, so there was no troop, unless she wanted to take over. She stepped up to be a leader, but has gotten no support from the council. She asked if the Cubs had a sister organization, to which I told her no, and she was disappointed.
Third Case: I have a friend who does have a daughter, and his wife is the troop leader. My friend also helps at the troop meetings on occasion, and they have a very strong unit…here is the rub…my friend's wife doesn't use ANY of the GSUSA materials or plans, and doesn't use any of the GSUSA facilities or camps. They buy anything online, and have it drop-shipped, as the local council very rarely has anything in their "shop"…I call it that, as my friend said that it was not anything more than a shelf in the middle of the council office, that had about 20 badges, and a couple of sashes on it. His wife, runs the meetings using the Program Helps from the BSA, and to an extent, doesn't tell the GS what she is doing. Now, that would be considered "going rogue" in the BSA, but she is doing what she needs to do, to keep young ladies involved and doing something.
So, with that said, I don't have a real positive opinion of the GS…I do have other first hand accounts from moms and their daughters, but these are three that I have heard about within the last couple of years.
If I were to ever think about Scouting for Girls, I would look into the American Heritage Girls…but that's me, and only my opinion. The BSA signed a letter a Memorandum of Mutual Support about a year ago…the GSUSA, well, they don't have one.
Ken, I see that your are in PA…the AHG started in OH, so there may be something close by that you can look into. http://www.ahgonline.org is the website.
I will say this, the more moms that see me in my uniform, and ask me about the GS, or tell me about the problems that they are having problems with the GS, the more I want to bring the AHG to Wisconsin…but then my wife brings me back down to earth and tells me "my plate is full enough, and you don't even have a daughter…"
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10:30 am
July 14, 2010
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Scouter_Garry
| | SATX | |
| PTC Boy Scout | posts 106 |
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Ken,
The girl scout volunteer organization works like this in South Texas. Each troop functions individually. Each should have a troop leader, assistant, and a committee. The troop leaders report to the committee and a Service Unit Director (Volunteer). The Service Unit Director reports to an Association Director (Paid). The Association is part of the Council.
Don't hold your breath on troop level positions being filled. My wife's experience is that the parent's are looking for baby sitters and wouldn't sit on a Committee Meeting if their life depended on it. So the Leader and assistant leader really have the run of the show. They are supposed to meet with the Service unit monthly. A good Service unit will have Service unit activities for the girls to participate in as well as troop functions.
Planning and budgeting – The GS troop leaders are encouraged to start and end each year with a zero balance. In the fall our units sell nuts to fund them until February and the cookie sales. They work backwards from what the Boy Scouts do. They earn the money then plan the year.
Summer functions – They likely have twilight / daycamps and resident camps, but few have regular troop meetings.
Overall expect the Girl Scouts to play fast and loose when compared to the Cub scouts or Boy scouts.
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11:49 am
July 14, 2010
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Ken
| | Scranton, PA | |
| PTC Bear | posts 70 |
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Shawn, those experiences pretty much mirror what I always thought GS was, unfortunately. I really want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but when I get no communication back, I immediately jumped to "no organization." I don't want to go in there with the "Well in the Boy Scouts we do…" but I also want there to be a good program.
Garry, thanks for that info. It sounds like Associations are comparable to Districts, and the Service Unit Director is similar to a Unit Commissioner. I'm expecting that the it's probably as easy to get Service Unit Directors as it is to get Unit Commissioners. :)
Thanks for the info, we'll see what happens next.
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2:38 pm
July 15, 2010
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Scouter_Garry
| | SATX | |
| PTC Boy Scout | posts 106 |
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I would place the Service Unit Director in a Role like district trainer, Cub/scoutmaster, Unit/District Committee and Unit commissioner rolled into one. That of course depends on the geographical size of the Service unit.
I know several women and a guy or two that were once GS leaders and are now in the BSA. Male GS leaders are treated worse than illegal aliens, per Safety Wise. Safety Wise is like the G2SS with Youth Protection. Most encourage girls to make the jump to Venturing as it offers more outdoors and some argue a better program. The program of course is what the local leaders make it. GSUSA does little to control how the program is delivered.
BTW I am a Unit Commissioner and proud of it. I attend all unit, district, and council events that I can sneak past my wife. If my units don't see me, they are wearing blindfolds.
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10:25 pm
August 4, 2010
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MISS Liberty
| | California | |
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Each Girl Scout council works a little differently. And, just as in Boy Scouts, each troop has it's own flavor.
My own experience with Girl Scouts was … disheartening. However, I'll try not to let that get in the way of this response. :)
One of my close friends actually volunteers as the person who matches girls to troops. She keeps a roster of current troops/leaders and prospective members. If troops are all filled to capacity and no new leadership emerges (or there aren't enough new kiddos to fill a troop) then a waitlist of sorts forms and as spots open up, girls are allowed in existing troops.
But what if there is no such volunteer within an area? Well, there are regional paid employees, much like district executives, who are supposed to help new members find or start troops. Our local paid employee seems to be fairly busy/distracted/otherwise occupied during the summer. She seems most helpful once troops are up and going and she also has been more willing to match troops/girls in the fall than other times of year. That may just be my experience around here, though.
When we were looking for a troop for my daughter, I had no idea of where to start so I contacted the council via their website. They in turn sent my contact information to our local district executive equivalent. It took awhile for the whole process to play out, but she did eventually get in touch with me. I am told by active volunteers within Girl Scouts to *always* contact your council if you have issues, so I wouldn't be afraid to get in touch with them even though they will clearly have NO clue what's up locally with you. (Our council is the same… it's HUGE and covers most of northern California.) They will at least be able to put you in touch with the "right" person, and it'll alert them on a council level that something isn't right (if it's not) when you give them a heads up of what's going on.
I'd make a point of contacting council and saying, "Yeah, um… if you're trying to get more members, you are FAIL!" ;) OK… maybe I wouldn't, but I'd want to and I WOULD leave constructive feedback that having someone locally to contact and more info about how to contact that person would have made it easier for your daughter to get involved.
G'luck with Girl Scouts. It didn't work out for my daughter and I, but that doesn't mean it won't be fun for yours!
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"[S]He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which." ~ Douglas Adams
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11:07 am
August 5, 2010
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smwalker_oh
| | Middletown, Ohio | |
| PTC Star Scout | posts 592 |
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Okay, so as the father of a Junior level Girl Scout, husband of a Girl Scout (wife is Juliette Coordinator for our Service Unit), and I *am* a Girl Scout (officially registered leader), my experiences are a bit different. I will try to give you some structure info that relates – I believe that the structure should be the same in each council.
So first off, you have councils. Girl Scout councils seem to be much larger geographically than BSA ones. Then in each council, you have multiple service units. Service Units are like BSA districts, only usually smaller. For example, the district in our area is the NOVA district which only covers all GSUSA units in our town and the one directly south. There are paid employees who work at council and there might be a staffer assigned to handle one or more service units but it isn't the DD or DE job like in the BSA. There is a person (or sometimes people) called the Service Unit Manager – they are a volunteer leader whose job is pretty much what you'd expect out of a DE or DD.
Troops – all GSUSA units are called troops and the big difference here is that they don't divide up into dens (like packs) and they don't have Chartered Organizations, though many will find an organization that "sponsors" them insofar as they have a meeting place.
Troop programming varies wildly as the curriculum is not as predefined as in Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts. There's no "you must do a,b,c,d,e,f,g this year" type of program. Instead you have a book of what basically amounts to merit badges (though not as stringent on requirements depending upon age group) with some other awards mixed in they can work on. Units are free to determine which they want to do and work on those. Some will do lots of these during the year, others not so much. Where BSA units can be affected based upon who is the leader, the same is true for GSUSA units but even more extreme. If you have parents volunteering to be leaders who don't like the outdoors, your GS unit is going to be a craft type unit. Like with any scouting unit, the dedication, training and willingness of volunteers is what makes or breaks things. I've seen this firsthand in both BSA and GSUSA units.
My experience has been overall a good one. My daughter who starts 6th grade this month has been a Girl Scout since she started Kindergarten. She really likes it, loves to go to girl scout camp and has made lots of memories, experiences and friends from her time in GSUSA. The program that she has done has varied widely as she's changed units a few times (due to us moving schools), and the last year she decided instead of joining a 4th troop to be a Juliette (GSUSA equivalent of Lone Scout program only far more common). She's completed Brownies and has earned her Bronze Award at the Junior level (GSUSA equivalent of AOL). I believe part of this is that so many of the GSUSA leaders in our service unit are also BSA leaders so there is a healthy exchange of ideas going both ways in the units in my town.
The other thing I've noticed is that most GSUSA units are school-year only. During summer there might be some service unit or council events (campouts, daycamp, summer camp) but most troops don't appear to do meetings. I'm not a fan of this and unfortunately this isn't a problem limited to just Girl scouts in our area – lots of Packs shut down in late April and don't start back up until September around here, despite efforts to curtail this practice by myself and other district leaders.
Maybe in my service unit we have the exception, but my feeling is that I think more GSUSA units are better run than everyone thinks but you just don't hear about it – people like to complain but not so much compliment. And for BSA leaders it is quite a different program.
If you are having difficulty getting signed up, I would contact your council and ask for the contact info for the service unit manager, or the service unit registrar. They should be able to help you out (both are volunteer positions, btw). If you get hooked up with a Troop and find it isn't what you are looking for, start your own or consider doing Juliettes.
The American Heritage Girls are very strong in my particular area (understandable, I live less than 10 minutes away from the house around whose kitchen table it was formed 15 years ago). The BSA does officially endorse them, and I expect that they'll be doing some more support of this group in the future as well. They are a good group and I would recommend them but the only rub is that they are a Christian only organization so there is one spot where they and the BSA don't see eye-to-eye.
All in all, what it boils down to is you get out of the Scouting program what you put into it.
Let me know if you have any other questions or feel free to PM me here if you want any more info.
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PT – Pack 19 Middletown
CR/CC – Pack, Troop & Crew 801 Middletown
MC, Packs 321, 418 & 468, Middletown
Hopewell District Cub Roundtable Commissioner
Hopewell 2011 Fall Recruitment Coordinator – Middletown
Dan Beard Council Certified Trainer
GSWO NOVA #449 Service Unit Camping Coordinator
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11:17 am
August 5, 2010
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Ken
| | Scranton, PA | |
| PTC Bear | posts 70 |
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Thanks for all the information, everyone.
So when I hear about Daisy, Brownie, Juniors, etc, these are not groups of girls in one Troop? Each group is it's own individual troop? I've heard that before and some of what I'm reading supports that, I just had trouble getting my head around that.
Our council is having new leader information sessions throughout the council this month. Our area is having on in a few months, and my wife will be going. I expect I'll also be a registered adult as well, so I guess I'll end up a Girl Scout as well.:)
In the end, I really just want a good program for my daughter. It's not fair for her brother the be having all these adventures and she has to wait until she's 13.
I'll let you all know how it goes.
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11:31 am
August 5, 2010
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smwalker_oh
| | Middletown, Ohio | |
| PTC Star Scout | posts 592 |
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For the most part, yes. Daisies are their own troop with their own troop number. Brownies are their own (and in most of the schools around here each grade level is their own troop).
I know of a couple Troops where they have Brownies from multiple grades or Brownies and Daisies or Brownies and Juniors, but that seems to be more the exception than the rule and usually has to do with the leader having multiple girls in Scouts or a leader willing to handle multiple age groups until a leader is found to split off into multiple troops.
Good luck!
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PT – Pack 19 Middletown
CR/CC – Pack, Troop & Crew 801 Middletown
MC, Packs 321, 418 & 468, Middletown
Hopewell District Cub Roundtable Commissioner
Hopewell 2011 Fall Recruitment Coordinator – Middletown
Dan Beard Council Certified Trainer
GSWO NOVA #449 Service Unit Camping Coordinator
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7:29 pm
August 17, 2010
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MISS Liberty
| | California | |
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What Scott said. ;) (Oh c'mon, you guys didn't expect me to come play in the forums and not throw that one down at least once, even if Shawn did steal it from me!)
I have heard *amazingly* good things about Girl Scouts in the Beaverton, OR area. And my complaints about GS in this area are undoubtedly mirrored in others in regards to Boy Scouts. Our area just sucks, in part due to the sparse population density, and in part due to the lack of funding. (Money doesn't buy happiness, but it sure does buy some sweet equipment and activity opportunities. Just saying.)
I had to call the GS Council because our area rep sucks. That's *her* issue, though, not (from what I hear from my friend in Oregon) a Girl Scout issue.
The troop my daughter joined consisted of both Brownies and Daisies. Because there were only 4 girls in the troop, it was considered a "combined troop" and it was really the only way a troop could exist in our area since a troop of 2 just couldn't exist. (I'm not entirely sure how a troop of 4 could exist, either…?)
I hope your family finds a good troop for your daughter, Ken! They are out there, for sure. And just like every Boy Scout troop has it's own flavor, so do Girl Scout troops. I know many Girl Scout troops do a ton of outdoor/wilderness survival type stuff at even earlier than the Boy Scouts do, since it seems like the age restrictions are different. (Girls don't have to wait until 4th grade to learn how to start a fire, for example.) There are also troops that are very centered on service projects, others that are very "life skill" oriented. Just because we had a "bad" experience, definitely doesn't mean everyone will – the numbers show otherwise! :)
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"[S]He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which." ~ Douglas Adams
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6:36 am
August 18, 2010
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Ken
| | Scranton, PA | |
| PTC Bear | posts 70 |
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Post edited 10:36 am – August 18, 2010 by Ken
Just a quick update.
We're both going to a leader's orientation next week, to find out more about what being a volunteer in the Girl Scouts is all about. More importantly, we found a troop more local to us that we think will work well.
I was originally looking at the same church where my pack and troop are chartered (mine meaning where I earned AoL and Eagle, and am still a volunteer). The GS program there is not as well developed, and there was no Daisy program last year. My wife found out one of the cheerleading moms' is a leader and got is info on a small but active troop locally, and we've already been in contact with them. Already a better experience in that way.
Thanks for int input, both the good an bad. In the end it's more like Boy Scouts than not, in that it's only as good as what the volunteers make it.
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6:01 pm
August 29, 2010
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Ken
| | Scranton, PA | |
| PTC Bear | posts 70 |
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Well, it's official. My wife and daughter were at their first Girl Scout meeting today. Paige is now a Daisy Girl Scout and my wife is a co-leader of her Daisy troop. She's with a leader who started the troop last year, and now they have 17 girls, a bunch new from the back to school night last week. It was also a nice surprise to my daughter that 3 or 4 of the other girls she already knows from school or cheerleading.
Both are excited and had a good first meeting. My wife who hates to get dirty even had a grass stain on her leg. :) I keep telling her to get over that, wait until the first time they go camping.
Thanks for the help. Apparently I have to go now and sell nuts and magazines at work now. Oh well, I have to wait for the cookies. :(
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9:42 am
August 30, 2010
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smwalker_oh
| | Middletown, Ohio | |
| PTC Star Scout | posts 592 |
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Nuts and magazines in the fall, cookies in the spring.
Some councils used to sell calendars (small ones that fit in a backpack or purse easily) but many have stopped in favor of the nuts and magazines (high profit margin).
I hope your wife and daughter (and possibly dad at some point too) have as much fun with Girl Scouts as our family has!
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PT – Pack 19 Middletown
CR/CC – Pack, Troop & Crew 801 Middletown
MC, Packs 321, 418 & 468, Middletown
Hopewell District Cub Roundtable Commissioner
Hopewell 2011 Fall Recruitment Coordinator – Middletown
Dan Beard Council Certified Trainer
GSWO NOVA #449 Service Unit Camping Coordinator
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10:58 am
August 30, 2010
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MISS Liberty
| | California | |
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Oh man. I love the spicy nut mix. Sign me up for six cans of those!
(Inside joke for the MISSes: NUT CAN!!!)
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"[S]He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which." ~ Douglas Adams
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11:42 am
September 17, 2010
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japhmi
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| PTC Tiger | posts 9 | |
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Forum ate my reply.
I find it funny that the place that was mentioned as having good girl scouts is Beaverton, OR. That's where I grew up  . This is my experience through my sister and some friends as of the late 90s.
My sister loved GS. Her troop was awesome – they went camping, hiking, did big trips (she went white water rafting in Alaska). Really cool. That troop was founded by a man who was an Eagle Scout and very much into BS. Then he had 7 daughters and no sons  . So, he started a GS troop and ran it like a BS troops – patrol method, leadership, etc. The troop kept those things even after he left.
I had several friends in High School who had been in different troops – and they almost uniformly hated GS. They had all left by High School, and were very jealous of the things I had done in BS. They all said that if GS had done the things that we did in BS, they would have stayed in.
If I were to get involved in GS (and I'm not), I would basically run it like BS. Incorporate as much BS stuff into it as possible while using the GS advancement system. However, my daughter is not going to do GS due to their national political issues. We have a different young girls program for her until she can become a Venture Scout.
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Cubmaster, Pack 65 – Portland, OR | Committee Chair, Troop 65 – Portland, OR | Campmaster – Camp Meriwether, CPC | Years until I have a child in the program – 2
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